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<== Date ==> <== Thread ==>

Subject: RE: pend_io
From: "Hill, Jeff" <johill@lanl.gov>
To: "Hill, Jeff" <johill@lanl.gov>, steve hunt <hunt@alceli.ch>
Cc: "core-talk@aps.anl.gov" <core-talk@aps.anl.gov>
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:04:20 +0000
> i dont remember this being necessary in the good old days :)

So it's true that, in the good old days, after returning 
from flush we had confidence that the message was at least 
in the clutches of the IP kernel whereas now one only knows 
that the client library has accepted the message, and is in 
the process of delivering it. That’s slightly different
behavior, but this new behavior is arguably backwards compatible
considering that in the past there were many additional hops 
remaining such as delivery to the server's ip kernel, delivery to 
the server, delivery of the put request to the database,
and completion of asynchronous record processing in the database.

The bottom line is that the only way to know for certain 
exactly when a put request has completed is to receive a
callback resulting from using a put callback request.

Jeff


> -----Original Message-----
> From: core-talk-bounces@aps.anl.gov [mailto:core-talk-bounces@aps.anl.gov]
> On Behalf Of Hill, Jeff
> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 12:23 PM
> To: steve hunt
> Cc: core-talk@aps.anl.gov
> Subject: RE: pend_io
> 
> > i dont remember this being necessary in the good old days :)
> 
> o Even in the good old days it was very OS dependent what
> might happen if the ca client code exited w/o giving the
> library a chance to close the sockets, and there was more
> variability back then. As I recall the SSC even had the
> record for the largest number of UNIX variations running :-)
> 
> o In the good old days we didn’t have opportunities for
> multiple cores to work concurrently sending and receiving
> messages to multiple sockets. This is a particularly important
> point because, unlike in the past, we can now have N threads
> all blocking for delivery in socket send concurrently. In the
> past, inside of the ca_flush_io call, we had a for loop around
> the N calls to socket send (which were enforced to complete
> sequentially).
> 
> o In the good old days we didn’t have opportunities for
> for the application to work concurrently at the same time
> that the library is sending and receive messages to multiple
> sockets.
> 
> o In the good old days we didn’t have opportunities for
> for preemptive callback (from an auxiliary thread) to a
> multithreaded application.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: steve hunt [mailto:hunt@alceli.ch]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:22 AM
> > To: Hill, Jeff
> > Cc: core-talk@aps.anl.gov
> > Subject: Re: pend_io
> >
> > thanks Jeff,
> > perhaps the next release could have the caclient makebase app
> > following this advice?
> >
> > by the way, i dont remember this being necessary in the good old days :)
> >
> >
> > cheers
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On 26 Jun 2012, at 19:12, "Hill, Jeff" <johill@lanl.gov> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Steve,
> > >
> > >> I changed caget to caput :)
> > >>
> > >> The value was not written to my ioc
> > >
> > >> int main (int argc, char *argv[])
> > >> {
> > >>        double  data=86;
> > >>        chid        mychid;
> > >>        SEVCHK(ca_create_channel(argv[1], NULL, NULL, 10,
> > >>                          &mychid),"failure");
> > >>        SEVCHK(ca_pend_io(10.0),"failure");
> > >>        SEVCHK(ca_array_put(DBR_DOUBLE, 1, mychid, &data),"failure");
> > >>        SEVCHK(ca_pend_io(10.0),"failure");
> > >> }
> > >
> > > It's true that ca_pend_io causes an implicit flush to occur (i.e the
> > > equivalent of a call to ca_flush_io).
> > >
> > > A call to ca_flush_io is analogous to placing a letter in the mail
> > > box.
> > > We know now that the problem of delivery is out of our hands and has
> > > been
> > > entrusted to the postal service. So far so good, but the problem in
> > > the above program is that a bomb has been dropped on our local postal
> > > service before the letter can been delivered.
> > >
> > > When your program exits from main without calling ca_context_destroy
> > > then the ca client library's send threads are very ungracefully
> > > terminated before they have been given a chance to deliver any
> > > message that they might have in their work queues to TCP. Furthermore,
> > > it is very OS dependent what might happen to any undelivered TCP
> > > messages
> > > lingering in the local IP kernel if you exit from main without given
> > > the
> > > CA client library an opportunity to close its TCP sockets; we end up
> > > with undefined behavior.
> > >
> > > In contrast, if the program calls ca_context_destroy before exiting
> > > from main then the CA client library will gracefully shut down its
> > > worker threads delivering all outstanding messages to the IP kernel
> > > before they exit, and also gracefully close all of its sockets;
> > > now we expect defined behavior.
> > >
> > > There is a (very brief) discussion of this issue in the
> > > troubleshooting
> > > section of the CA reference manual - which perhaps could be expanded.
> > >
> > > The bottom line is if you shouldn’t terminate the local postal servi
> > > ce
> > > unless you provide also some additional funding for a close out :-)
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: core-talk-bounces@aps.anl.gov [mailto:core-talk-
> > >> bounces@aps.anl.gov]
> > >> On Behalf Of Steve Hunt
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:49 AM
> > >> To: core-talk@aps.anl.gov
> > >> Subject: pend_io
> > >>
> > >> I have a problem running a trivial (too trivial it seems) ca client
> > >> program.
> > >>
> > >> I fact I just generated the ca example using makeBaseApp.
> > >>
> > >> I changed caget to caput :)
> > >>
> > >> The value was not written to my ioc
> > >>
> > >> I am running 3.14.12.2, on linux_x86_64 but the behavior seems the
> > >> same
> > >> in older versions (at least 3.14.9(
> > >>
> > >> I am sending this to core-talk rather than tech-talk as this seems
> > >> to be
> > >> a real ca problem
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ###
> > >> ###
> > >> ####################################################################
> > >> #######3
> > >> #include <stddef.h>
> > >> #include <stdlib.h>
> > >> #include <stdio.h>
> > >> #include <string.h>
> > >>
> > >> #include <cadef.h>
> > >>
> > >> int main (int argc, char *argv[])
> > >> {
> > >>        double  data=86;
> > >>        chid        mychid;
> > >>
> > >>        SEVCHK(ca_create_channel(argv[1], NULL, NULL, 10,
> > >> &mychid),"failure");
> > >>        SEVCHK(ca_pend_io(10.0),"failure");
> > >>
> > >>        SEVCHK(ca_array_put(DBR_DOUBLE, 1, mychid, &data),"failure");
> > >>        SEVCHK(ca_pend_io(10.0),"failure");
> > >> //      SEVCHK(ca_array_get(DBR_DOUBLE, 1, mychid, &data),"failure");
> > >> //      SEVCHK(ca_pend_io(10.0),"failure");
> > >> //      SEVCHK(ca_flush_io(),"failure");
> > >> //      SEVCHK(ca_poll(),"failure");
> > >>
> > >> //      sleep(10);
> > >> //      ca_context_destroy();
> > >>
> > >> //      return result;
> > >> }
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> When I un-comment ca_poll, ca_context_destroy, ca_get (plus its
> > >> pend_io), or sleep!!!  it works!!!
> > >>
> > >> so  a ca_poll, a ca_context_destroy, or a ca_pend_io AFTER a ca_get,
> > >> seems to flush the send buffer - but just ca_pend_io, nor ca_flush_io
> > >> seem not to do so.
> > >>
> > >> At least the client example generated from makebaseApp should have a
> > >> ca_put added, and made to work without the ca_get, but perhaps this
> > >> could be considered a bug.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >



Replies:
RE: pend_io Steve Hunt
References:
pend_io Steve Hunt
RE: pend_io Hill, Jeff
Re: pend_io steve hunt
RE: pend_io Hill, Jeff

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